KT: How would you describe the state of the Church today, especially in Nigeria?
PCI: One reason I am passionate about the Nigerian Church is because I believe, first and foremost, the Nigerian Church in prophecy has been ordained by God to lead the Church both in Africa and the world into understanding the dynamics of the prophetic things that God has said will happen in the earth, especially as we see the days of the return of Christ approaching.
So, if you ask me what the state of the Church is, I will say that I thank God we have travelled this far; that we have teachers, prophets, apostles and of course, various denominations came in as missionaries hundreds of years ago and founded the Church in Nigeria and, in the light of the global events, the Church has also evolved and I don’t think that it’s an evolution into conformity with the world but rather, one necessary by God, according to the prophetic mandate of the Church in the season.
We are a growing Church, not numerically but spiritually. Like I’ve acknowledged, there have been contributions, through the years which have been fundamental to our growth but I think we have come to the place where it has become important for the Church to take of all the revivals it has enjoyed through time and harness it into a constructive move of God that will, number one, be evangelical, in the sense of reaching out to the nations of the earth until the gospel of the kingdom is preached everywhere.
Number two, we need to be apostolic in the sense that, it will reflect in very clear terms, what is in the heart and the agenda of God and I must add, intelligently, because a lot of haphazard things are happening in the Church but not so much of intelligent, constructive work as aiding the return of Christ is happening, in my opinion.
The Ark of Noah was an intelligent, constructive work. So, God said to Noah; “This is the state of the earth, this is what I’ve determined to do but you will raise for me an Ark, anybody who discerns that this is the Ark of safety and comes into it is saved. Anybody who does not discern that this is the Ark of safety and stays out, is not saved.
John 3 very clearly states: ‘As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whosoever believes in him will not perish…’, and take note that God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, just like God didn’t ask Noah to build the Ark to condemn the world. You see the heart of God with Jonah because with him, God sends to say ‘if you don’t repent, I’ll destroy this people’, the people repent and they are saved.
So, the Nigerian Church is growing in its understanding of the apostolic mandate of God for it to intelligently engage the nations of the earth in the last revival. I believe it’s more or less the last sweep of God on the earth before the return of Christ.
KT: What do you think is the ‘time’ now in the world in terms of God’s prophetic calendar and what should define the Christian’s attitude?
PCI: I think that we are in the last of the last days which has got sufficient warnings in scripture. For instance, Paul said in second Thessalonians ‘that day will not come until there has been first, a great falling away’. Jesus said in Mathew 24, he said ‘…because knowledge will increase the love of many will wax cold’. Paul said in second Timothy, I believe chapter 3, ‘in the last days perilous times shall come because men shall be lovers of themselves, lovers of pleasure, proud, boastful, haters…’ and all of that. I think that scripture is laced all over with sufficient warnings for the last days.
One outstanding one for me is the parable of the ten virgins. Now note that in that parable, all ten were virgins, so the real problem was not purity or devotion. The problem was oil; meaning they were not in sync with the only One who we know as the oil, the Holy Spirit. I think that, like my emphasis has been since we began, that our intelligent work, Ephesians 5 puts it like this, ‘work circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the times, for the days are evil’, it said, ‘do not be foolish but understand what the will of the Lord is’, meaning the day has come and gone when the Church believes when we’re pure, our robes are white, and then they think we’re ready.
Now we’re discovering from scripture that readiness goes beyond, ‘our robes are white’. Readiness goes into what Peter calls in Second Peter 2, ‘looking for and hastening unto the day of His coming’. To hasten unto means you can quicken that day or you can slow it down. Slowing it down would be you’re not aligning to what God wants to accomplish on the earth because Jesus was emphatic about the fact that the end will not come until the gospel of the Kingdom is preached.
And the gospel of the Kingdom is not necessarily us carrying Bibles under our armpits and going to houses two by two. The gospel of the Kingdom is keeping sufficient witness of the earth so that, like the Ark of Noah was preparing and put out for everyone to see; and like Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness according to Hebrews 13, Jesus was led out of the city and crucified upon a hill, it’s obvious to me that God wants to do a reconstruction and put it in clear view.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that the whole world will align to it but at least, as the Church we must be involved in the construction of whatever God wants to leave on the earth as a witness to make for the day of His coming. So when I say God will not wait forever, it simply means that once God finds a group of people who have agreed with him to carry out his assignments, we cannot be contemplating forever being involved with what God is doing on the earth.
In Hosea 6, he said, ‘then will you know, if you follow on to know the Lord, that his ways are set like the rising of the sun’. Jesus just before he left said that ‘there are times and seasons which the Father has hidden Himself and in that day, there will always be a willing people’. So, the distance of time between you responding to God’s call and when He has ordained to do the thing is the warning we always leave for the Church. While you are contemplating whether to join the God-boat to hasten the day of His coming, it doesn’t mean that the day is slowing down, other people are saying “yes” and He will do what He has to do on the earth and the day will come.
KT: So how then should we prepare for His return?
PCI: Peter said that, ‘seeing that the world will end like this and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, what manner of men ought we to be, in all holy conversation, as you look for and hasten unto Him’. ‘Looking for’ is the first posture, ‘hastening unto’ is the second posture.
So, the first attitude is everyday one must be ready because the Bible says even though the world will be dissolved and fervent heat will come to destroy the earth, we according to His promise look for a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness. The Bible says in those days concerning Lot, when God was coming to destroy Sodom, that Lot vexed his righteous soul consistently beholding. Meaning, we cannot love the world and those things that are in the world. There must be things that we see in the system of the world that vexes our righteous souls. If there is not that posture, it means we are not ready.
The second thing scripture says here is ‘hastening unto’, meaning we need to quicken that day. Jesus said, ‘If the days were not shortened, even the very elect will be deceived’, meaning for our own sake, we need to get to work as quickly as possible because at the wavelength by which the floods of the world are coming, if we don’t hasten towards the day, we too will have reason to wake up one day and contemplate whether or not Jesus is the answer.
KT: Let’s turn to happenings around us here in Nigeria. What is your position regarding Christians participating in politics?
PCI: Well, needless to say I am a Political Scientist by training and being that, I almost feel like we’re asking the wrong questions. Christians are everywhere — in the economy, politics, the social strata, arts and entertainment; we are everywhere and it is by design. Mathew 10, ‘Behold I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves’. So, I guess that, maybe the right way to ask it is, how does the Christian ought to stand in politics? This, for me, is the million-dollar question.
Meaning, if we’ve got as many Christians as we claim to have within the political sphere, what exactly are we doing and what have we achieved in the light of saying, “I am a Daniel, I am a Joseph, I am an Esther?” That is the heart of the question for me.
I am concerned about what we uphold as values, the purposes that drive people everywhere. People have got different reasons why they get involved with different things and of course, the Lord knows the heart of men and He knows why He has ordained men to be where they are. So, if you ask me, I think Christians ought to be in politics but also Christians need to be intelligently informed to know why the Lord placed them where He has placed them. And the fruit of it is what the nation awaits to see, because we are the salt of the earth, the light of the world, the yeast in the midst of the dough, too many things Jesus used to describe us. So, that’s my position.
Also read: We Need A Generation Of Intelligent Christians
KT: People claim that politics is a dirty game, so if Christians do go into politics, how would they make an impact in governance?
PCI: Hebrews 12:1, “seeing therefore, as we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses….” Now, what the scripture means by a cloud of witnesses is simply saying, people have been there, they’ve seen it and they’ve conquered it. I’ll give you an example, in Daniel, scripture says, that the other people who served in the king’s court said, ‘we will not find a fault in him except in the law of the Lord, his God’.
If you read that statement in Daniel, number one, it was a statement of amazement, so the people were wonderfully amazed that “if we dug his track records to its very roots, there will not be any sin found”. That’s why I introduced the word earlier “intelligence”, when the bible says “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but they are mighty through God…” I think, first and foremost, the average Christian needs to understand that we are at war and being at war, he now needs to know what weapons the Lord has put in his hands to fight this war.
So, Jesus said, “I send you into the world but you are not of the world”, meaning that the world needs to look into you and understand that the corruption that is in the world through lust is not anywhere at work in you. I would then say, that part of the real problem is that we face the world not having dealt with ourselves. Jesus told us two things in that scripture I quoted earlier in Mathew 10, “be ye therefore wise as serpents, harmless as doves”.
Now, most times, this is the dilemma I see; a few Christians who have got some wisdom, don’t have the purity of doves. So, if you don’t have the purity of the dove, what the natural system will do is that it will pin you on the strength of the darkness which already exists in you.
Let me explain. You are in the world but not of the world, it means that it is alright for the boat to be in the water but it is a problem if the water finds its way into the boat which is really where the world pins us. So then, if we can raise a generation of believers who understand intelligently that Jesus warned and said, “the children of this world are in their day, wiser than the sons of light”.
Jesus wasn’t suggesting that we become cunning and devilish in the exercise of our wisdom rather He was suggesting that there are principles in the Kingdom of God that keep us afloat, that the world will never cause us to sin. Those constitute the intelligence that I spoke about earlier, that I said the Church needs to be introduced to, that’s why I call us a growing Church.
Jesus said, “The prince of this world comes and finds nothing in me”. The problem is we’ve not been able to raise an incorruptible generation that the world will look at and have nothing in, and apart from having nothing in, we must have the wisdom enough to navigate the systems of this world and cause them to be far more productive than they are in the hand of an unbeliever.
So, when the Bible says “Daniel was found ten times better in all matters of science, art and literature”, it simply meant that he knew how to handle the systems of Babylon better than the average Babylonian. These are our clear weapons that Jesus gave to us, ‘I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves’ meaning that the world will always want to swallow. I think we’re just not being intelligent and knowledgeable in the handling of our faith.
KT: In your opinion, how do you think Christians, especially those in Southern Kaduna, should respond to the attacks on their communities?
PCI: My sincere opinion is, “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal” but whatever weapons the Lord has given us are “mighty to the pulling down of strongholds”. I think we’re focusing on the wrong strategy.
KT: So we should pray more?
PCI: Of course, we’ve got to pray more. Prayer is not the only weapon of warfare we have. In fact, prayer according to Ephesians 6 is the expression of our wearing the whole armour. It means that there’s a whole armour we’ve got to find our way around. So back to my point from the very start; we need to raise a generation of “intelligent Christians”. Intelligent, not knowledgeable in the ways and matters of the world but intelligent in the handling of the unique strategies that God has given us for warfare.
I think on a strategic front, we need to return to scripture and find out what weapons of warfare are available to us. The bible promises us that if we engage these weapons of warfare, they are mighty enough to give us victory.
KT: There seems to be a belief that the Southern Church is not in sync with the Northern Church. If this is so, why should the world listen to us?
PCI: It’s obvious that the church in the North and the Church in the South are focused on different things; it’s very obvious. In fact, most times, even if you hear us in our manner of speaking and presentations, you will know that our focus is different. Whether in the North or South, I will not necessarily say that we have all gotten it wrong or right but, this is my concern, I see a church that is more concerned with its immediate environment than it’s concerned about the internal movement and motions of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4, “one Spirit, one Lord, one Faith, one baptism”, automatically means that if we’ve got two different opinions concerning any matter, somebody is not hearing in the Spirit. If there’s one Spirit, it automatically means that we’ve got a supply from one source and if we are being supplied from one source, basically and fundamentally, we will agree. In strategy, we might be carrying out from different platforms but in purpose we will be united.
So, if you ask me to rephrase that I would say that, there’s got to be some level of returning happening on all fronts. The Church in the North is passing through certain things, of course, because of their experience, because of the things we see daily. You don’t want to know the pain in the heart of a pastor who wakes up to find out that ten, twelve, of his members have been murdered. You don’t want to know the pain in the heart of a man who gets up and knows that mosques can rise up everywhere but he doesn’t have the right to build a church which is still prevalent.
Normally the charge of the Church in the North against the Church in the South is simple; the churches in the South are primarily involved in planting churches in the North. I think it is only fair that the churches in the South give attention to the blossoming churches in the North and add to it in whatever form they can, understanding that we also have been trained in certain things to add to the churches in the South.
For instance, we’re not meeting in Kaduna right now, we’re meeting in Lagos and I didn’t come here for fun, I came here for ministry and not necessarily to partake in the ministry of the South but to add to it, the flavour and beauty of the things that my unique experiences as a northern Christian has brought to me. Jesus said, “By this shall men know that you are my disciples, when you have love, one for another”. I think there’s a bridge we need to heal, however we look at it.